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Bhagavad Gita Study - D

Lessons
The Second Vatican Counsil maintains there is divine wisdom in other religions.
"It's an ill wind that does no one good (British proverb)".

We bring a Bhagavad Gita on another page. On this page are many "but's" assembled around it. Study of them may benefit some. This is discussed below. - T. Kinnes

Faces of Lamaism
Wisdom of Hindu art
The value of innunendos
Existential outlooks

Supporting "well medleys" are presupposed throughout:

1. Faces of Lamaism

1 A sort of second-hand delivery survived

THE ESSENCE OF Buddhism was transmitted into Tibet between 600 to 900 AD, mainly.
In the second half of the 1900s Tibetan Buddhism spread to the West. ¤

2 The rigorous schooling is part of deeper training

THERE ARE many schools of Buddhist philosophy. What we tentatively call the "Lamaism system" is based mainly on the rigorous intellectual disciplines of Madhyamika and Yogacara philosophy and makes use of the symbolic ritual practices of Tantric Buddhism. [Indian philosophy + Evanz-Wents 3 stk]

3 A symbol-assisted teaching is shown in both scriptures and a lot art works

CHARACTERISTIC of Tibetan Buddhism is the Dalai Lama as a token of unification and identity; and the vast number of divine beings (pantheon figures) that are considered symbolic representations of the psychic life by the religiously sophisticated and perhaps accepted as realities by the common people.
   Lamaism is (but incorrectly) the same as Tibetan Buddhism, the distinctive form of Buddhism that evolved from the 600s AD in Tibet.
   Notable early teachers were the illustrious 700s Tantric master Padmasambhava. Dr. Evans-Went's has edited a good deal of his story in a book published by Oxford University. ¤
   The Mahayana Buddhism of Tibet and Mongolia have been marked by tantric and shamanistic ritual and a dominant monastic hierarchy headed by the Dalai Lama.
   And modern "Guruism" happens to function in rather similar veins, step by step, if given a good chance of free flow:

The transmission of scriptures.
The spread.
The use of rigorous training along with abstruse thought (philosophy).
A head (guru) stands out and the psychic life of followers tends to be set and dominated by what's set up along the stages suggested.
A hierarchy is formed with laymen at bottom, contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

Wisdom of Hindu art - do we make use of it?

Great Hindu wisdom consists of thoughts, and God's wisdom is all right

There is no help in
becoming a sectarian frog
in the long run, nor is
there help in decadence.

We think a lot little girls and boys first should be instructed in solvency-helping Christianity as a part of our own best tradition, a part that should be fairly well aligned with their own roots somehow. After some decades it might be fit for some to look into alien scriptures. Comparative studies ofen help. And one reason is that careful study lays bare some traps that beginners don't see.
   There are many such traps, not only half-truths and the very many sordid grrreat-brags or something like that - such things may cloud and dim the vision. And what is more, it would be good to get aware of which great-looking, good-looking avatar teachings that could be likened to sugar-coated poison pills, or what?
   The sifted statements may help, and good pinpointing on top of valuable study may help even better. We'll go into it to make years of study more lasting to some - those who can learn to shun Bhagavan Krishna after considering our so-called The Trans-Atlantic Gita ... (fun).
   The terrain we're crawling into consists of assertions, tenets, norms of living and much else. There's reason to discern between (a) normative utterances; and (b) expository ones. The latter include some descriptive ones. At times it can be hard to see any difference between muddled norms and statements, and that is a hallmark of religious literature in sects or cliques.
   Also, there is room for (c) adiaphoric information. It's of the "grey zones" midway between a lot, somehow. For example, eating a hot dog is all right for a chilled Norwegian citizen, but hardly for a man from Sri Lanka, for he is initially or culturally repelled from eating cow's meat. We's seen it.
   We've also seen that a couple of months in our climate made him change his customs, and he became a sausage-fan. It takes what it takes. After months the formerly repulsive thing to do (eating cow's meat) was turned into his adiaphoric stuff, and next a very liked food.
   Adiaphorist controversy may rise over worldly amusements. Lutherans may defend Christian freedom in such matters. It depends. The root word involved is the Greek adiaphora, which means "indifferent". In Christian theology, adiaphorism signifies that certain doctrines or practices in morals or religion are matters of indifference because they are neither forbidden nor commanded in the New Testament or whole Bible. The theoretical question of adiaphora has been much debated by Protestants. And the sick and nervous mind had better seek a good doctor to become worthy of a bridegroom.
   Things change, but we are who we are at bottom. It had better be that way. Some engrossing topics change too. A few decades ago the bishop that appointed the first female minister in the dominant, state-governed Norway, had excrements mailed to him as a protest action. Later the repulsion gave way, and a woman was made the bishop too. Abortion was permitted, and homosexuals in some Norwegian church offices. All these things were earlier called horrible or even better -

There's good reason to sift adiaphoric expositions and loveable suggestions from anywhere - such facets of God's wisdom - the Second Vatican Council declares.

Hindu's dilemmas tend to reflect the Hindu mind - ours could be different

As we've said, what is considered good, bad or in between (i.e. adiaphora) may change with time and differ among groups. It's much good to bear that in mind. As a young student I came across a book written by a minister. It was called Yoga for Christians. To some that combination seems horrible. But since there are many forms of yoga, and one of them comes very close to stretching - it can work all right. Perhaps there is a lesson to learn from the proverb "One should not throw out the babe with the dirty water", maybe not. In this context suggests there may be something of value in Asian teachings, one way or other. Much depends on what use we make of things and who we are our back-up - such things count.
   As Christians we had better be very aware that normative statements in books as the Gita (i.e. Bhagavad-gita) can take the heart astray. Idol worship is not allowed for Christians, and Hare Krishna is an idol. This said, much is boiled down in this sentence: "There are thistles in that garden, and not all foreign flowers are to be plucked".
   The exotic flowers may not thrive on northern altitudes, That's one reason. And expressivity that may suit the Hindu mind may mar a Christian a lot. So maybe we should make do with our own tradition and sniff less on alien flower-beds. We think that's best.
   Still, as the Second Vatican Council decreed, God's wisdom is spread in other religions also. We should know how to handle that. The fit way is accommodating the thoughs and insights from other religions to us.
   For some suggestions may suit normal, daily living because they (1) suit norms of Christian tradition, (2) are quite complementary to ours and perhaps redundant for that reason, and (3) look adiaphoric as to moral issues. Subtle or flowery expressions from wisdom literature written by Hebrews or gentiles, may or may not be worth accommodating to at a given time - including instructions in beginner yoga as well, if there's a time for everything - yes and no - just as our good Bible states.

Instructions had better be good. Some derive from wisdom literature.

Good things may change

As we've seen, certain things may change, for example when God the Holy Spirit or whoever it is, allows a lot lesbian ministers to serve us. It has started in Norway.
Even if we are nakedly fundamentalistic in basic attitudes, because the gospels and New Testament letters are fundamental, we see there is room for more. For example, if Indian wisdom has sayings that help us to calm down bad dogs a lot, maybe we could accommodate the gist to make the old insights poignant. If relevant they could serve us one way or other according to the tenet: "Not all Asians are trolls".
Sayings from many other religions may be selected and boiled down and perhaps partially reshaped to serve us. The subject matter deserves both deep and many considerations. Basically:

To accommodate to Hindu wisdom is not all right for the Christian.

It's the other way round. The right way is largely to accommodate fit and very fit Indian wisdom to ourselves. Much of it is found in Sanskrit poetry. And to look for it and inspect can be fair and all right. It depends on who you are, "how grey your hairs are" and main conditions, perhaps. The pope says it's permittable for some, but may not mean anybody. [Omo]
   Below you find Indian wisdom as Jesus and the Second Vatican Councel would have it: Various outlooks and statements in the Bhagavad-gita have been made terse and poignant. A lot British proverbs are like that. They are basically helpful to lots of people. The selected statements don't seem mediocre to us here. They all tie in with the first chapter of the Gita (i.e. Bhagavad-gita).
   The statements have been sifted, trimmed a lot, and re-arranged. Each series of verses below speak from a certain angle inside the human endeavour. Each of the separate sub-chapters that follow, have their own anchorages. For example, if there had been a seventh sub-chapter, it would have been anchored in the loins and the fuctions asociated with it, including the kidneys and bladder - and ramifications and even socially budding "things" along with that. Thus we reach the Libra statement:
   "Careful, skilled and polite peeing (sort of) tends to make you well liked as lover, friend and associate."

What's supposed to be good for the pope and Second Vatican Council, is supposed to be good for over 800 millions as well.

To acccommodate

We are to look at it as an explorative statement. It's real value may be masked by metaphors. It's for you to rive them to get a probable or formidable outlook kernel that is good to you. It's the same way with the statements that follow. They may whet your brainwaves a little. Now, the large sub-chapters speak of gross outlooks:

Anchored to the head and its functions.
Your "throat and nect things" of life;
The shoulder region and lots of "shouldering stuff" - including academic skills, getting well versed, and further;
The "breasts and nipples" of existence and finest family living;
Great, elegant candour outlooks and fondness of living as reflected in such animals as the hippopotamus and lion at times;
Quite goose-like artistry - it includes feathers, maybe even horse-feathers or make-up to look at.
Jovial-looking association - "skilled and polite abstract peeing (an elegant assertion aspect - sort of) that can make you loved among friends and companions."

Kabbalah operates with this joviality-helping, grid-linked division. The wisdom in up-to-date physics is that man knows the world about him through himself. As hinted at, astrological basic framework does the same thing: it looks "out" into the world through sense organs and deep mind at the back of that, and arrive at the staggering:

"The world "out there" is inside your own deep awareness also - and is formed as a deep function or derivate of how the mind is deep inside."

This outlook shouldn't breed neuroses. It's well accepted in scientific circles, and some involve transpersonal psychology, in part as the one found in Zen (or Mahamudra Buddhism). [See Tiy]
   Deep mind, or psyche, is reflected and manifests in the body parts, organs and attitudes that seem allied. By extention we find a neat, decreed natural-looking correspondence of a sort. It's hierarchic.
   We use this age-old way of relating to nature's cycles, our own cycles of being and much else, for skilled reference work. The allotments help us to reflect. Maybe those reflections end up as help. If so, we have been aided by hierographic sentences (wisdom) so pure that it may help even not versed beginners to eye some solution - often it's a building enterprise of a sort, one way or other.
   Of course, the establishment of skills come in addition, and should be considered by a lot foremost experts first, for your own good. Remain tentative till then,a nd thus be spared of troubles.
   Well, what we offer is another series of Christian Verses to go tip-toe through. But not all of them may apply to the monk. Gita references are given in brackets. - We should say the outlooks that follow are rather basic considerations in well-nigh any founded family's life.

Our neat or staggering hierography should never be used to breed a psychosis.

Innunendos may be best, at least at times

Now comes a summing-up from the four articles right above. What's the inner and significant meaning of POLITE PEEING? Maybe you can't find it out unless you learn to juxtapose, bring choice, well-founded items side by side for certain effects and learn to align well through such as artful comparisons.
And next you can add shapes, arrange, delete segments and rearrange so as to bring together - i.e. compose - more and better. Good art accomplishes these things and many others. Some may be for fun.

Great wisdom may be used.
Even the artist and craftsman expresses on top of instructed techniques, skills - through bodily expressed or extended wisdom at times.
You should note old Solomon's likeable views here.

The inner, central meaning or course may be detected through artistic development and discipline

1 The good artist has to note his limits or borders before he expresses valuably and fitly, somehow. It can be vaguely, as in impressionism.

A WELL FOUNDED astrographic framework can be worth a world culture. A culture - is that so good? Well, even if we are naked fundamentalists to honour Adam and Eve at their presumed best - we should allow room for nice clothes and housing, tact and culture, because it's best. Even Jesus lived in a house as he grew up.
   All good things in life may not apply to the monk, but well sifted statements may help.
   Inunendos can often work best, but hardly in a skilled reference work.
   Stark reflections can end up as help. What about: "The world "out there" is inside your own deep awareness also"? ¤
   Careful, skilled and polite peeing (sort of) works well versus over 800 millions - so through figurative language some outlooks can be made remarkably terse and poignant - but the risk is that many don't understand them.

2 Great wisdom is beautiful and may save your day, in Solomon's opinion. Much depends on how you make use of it

DEEP MIND, or body-mind psyche, if you like, can be reflected and manifests in the body parts, organs and attitudes that seem allied.
   The best sort of "shouldering stuff" means getting well versed, but wordly wisdom can be much dubious, dangerous and can be ruinous. Think of the wisdom at the back of the atomic bomb It illustrates this. ¤
   God's wit and wisdom, on the other hand, is okay. There is still adiaphoric matter to live by. If we make do with our own tradition and sniff less on alien flower-beds, we may not level our moral by looking ascance "out" into the world through outlooks and dominant attitudes a bit alien to our own innate operatie agents where we are in the middle, adapted in our culturally framed ways ways for reasons that are perhaps unknown to all and sundry at times.
   Western man should preserve his own centricity. It includes and involves and mobilises that of his family's favoured or dominant ways, means, customs and assets inside its culture and its tradition. Historical and man-centric adaptation is quite like a budding flower where one layer or part leads into the next in a beautiful synthesis: The individual expressivity is like a flower on top of these other things - that "bush", in other words. Much depends on your own bush - the one you are inside.
   Good pinpointing on top of valuable study leads into symbology, which serves fairly well without even being accurate. It can be ponderous anyhow.

3 Decrees of St. Paul should not be used for sipping in looming psychoses. Luckily, our stratified, hierarchic presentation of selected titbits from Paul and others, may help

AVID hierography should never be used to breed a demoniac condition or a psychosis.
Very fit Indian wisdom has to be basically helpful, fit for ourselves and worth accommodating to us, if we care and don't need the best of doctors.
There are decrees around that suit normal, daily living inside a Christian tradition. Many are found in the letters of St. Paul. Stout allotments help us to reckon and consider better.

Summary

A valuable idea, item and criminal seems fit somehow, one way or other.
How you make use of a fit thing og buddy matters and can make your day.
Sipping in titbits for the sake of developing an illness is hardly good enough, no matter how you look at it.

The good artist has to note his limits or borders before he expresses valuably and fitly, somehow. It can be vaguely, as in impressionism.
Great wisdom is beautiful and may save your day, in Solomon's opinion. Much depends on how you make use of it.
Decrees of St. Paul should not be used for sipping in looming psychoses. Luckily, our stratified, hierarchic presentation of selected titbits from Paul and others, may help.

1. A good artist may save your day.
2. A great artist "decrees" savoury impressions.

Existential outlooks

Many souls seem to ripen for bad

MANY souls see things in different ways, but the Lord may see them all. Through room for that sort of mature, deep outlooks unknown to most people, comes giant pondering that may consume a heart if bad conformity rules and none thinks differently.
Thus ripe fruit withers, the Bible suggests.

Deep and interesting outlooks can deviate from those of God in the Bible - better be aware

1 Through room for mature, deep outlooks comes pondering that may consume a life, alas

WE THINK there should be room for existential outlooks.
What we are faced with in the Bhagavad-gita is a personal all-god (Hare Krishna) that embraces various ancient Indian teachings, even though some of their tenets can hardly be reconciled. [See Wy 18]
Some figments coincide with similar viewpoints found in the Bible. The mature philosopher (thinker) sees into philosophical (i.e. deep) statements and nods if he agrees, and refrains if he doesn't agree. If he is at a loss as to what to say, maybe he should refrain from tall considerations on top of that.

2 Many souls see things in different ways, but not where conformity rules foremost and none thinks differently

IN THE BHAGAVAD-GITA there are various tenets from three of the six orthodox philosophical systems in Hinduism. There is room for atheistic Samkhya of many souls that are said to be spaceless and pure mind somehow (purushas). Then we have teachings of the godhood-allowing Yoga side by side with it. Samkhya and Yoga philosophies are older than Buddha, and definitely influenced his teachings. [Wy 13]
   And the monistic part of systemic Vedanta philosophy teaches "I am Brahman - all" - that sort of pantheism. More unknown to outsiders is that higher forms of Vedanta borders on nihilism, and may be nihilistic all along: God is seen as a helpful concept that one gets rid of - but there are many forms of Vedanta. We should bear that in mind .[See Ins]
   Various parts from these sources are interspersed along with looming Upanishadic utterances. Much system thinking of Yoga is done away with in the mouth of the idol Hare as he strives to reconcile conflicting main tenets contrary to "You can't eat your cake and have it too".
   Let's sum up from the three old traditions (1) Samkhya philosophy; (2) Yoga philosophy, and (3) Vedanta philosophy.

Samkhya is mainly a natural philosophy, and markedly atheistic. The leading Samkhya source text is Kapila's Samkhya Sutras.
Yoga philosophy is advanced through Patanjali's Yoga Sutras. It's a key work in the philosphy and practice of contemplative yoga. Patanjali's yoga system is advancing self-help, yet it allows for an Isvara, "lord of light". The role or display of Isvara is meagre in comparison to the God-display in the Bhagavad-gita. [See Wy 14-5]
Vedanta sums up Vedic teachings on way or other, and states that our interior I-ness (I am) is identical with the eternal God who is called Brahman in Vedic teachings. According to this systemic outlook, each of us can say: "I am God (somehow)". Some do.
Vedanta is built on top of Vedic teachings. The latter encompass the Upanishads. There are over 60 of these very ancient texts. [See So]
Vedanta teaches that a wrong outlook is base and is to be done away with. Some say Vedanta is monistic. It can be. There are many forms of Vedanta, both monistic and others. [Wy 16-7]

3 Many gurus are winners on the shoulders and backs of many followers - they give fame and other blessings by dispensing with good things. It's a practice that may go against "Walk in my ways" says the Lord in the Bible

THE BLACK HARE states and states and only superficially reconciles conflicting Indian tenets. That's a part of the food for thought he gives. Besides he's an idol - is served that way. Do you know what the gospel says about it?
   "It's not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick," says Jesus. [Luke 5:31]
   In the next verse he says it: "I haven't come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." He is the soul doctor. And later in that chapter he insists it's unwise to mingle old and new wine and cloaks, because the effects may not be to live with, at least in a little advanced society, technically speaking. What is more:
   (If you need a doctor -) "This is my Son, whom I've chosen; listen to him." [Luke 9:35]
   Later it was stated through apostles - and we should add the message of Jesus, shouldn't we?:
   (If you need a doctor -) "Abstain from food polluted by idols". [Acts 15:20]
   And "man-made gods are no gods at all." [Acts 19:26]
   Metaphorically stated, it looks like many Hare Krishna statements are polluted food, at least for those in need of a good doctor. And to marry them by living up to them may be like patching one's clothes - it may come to nothing, says Jesus. But it depends on who you are. Thus the apostle Paul writes:

"We must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, that each one may receive what's due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
... What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. [2 Corinthians 5:11]

We just point at a possibility. For Jesus said "the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins." [Matthew 9:6]. So who are the possible winner statements? St. Pauls also ventures to show that it's possible to be a winner over and above the intellectual waters. It must be stated, for it's so easily overlooked by some:

If we're out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we're in our right mind, it is for you. For Christ's love compels us, because we're convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. (v 13-4)
(...) From now on we regard none from a worldly point of view. [There is no other inside the world, alas] Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. ... If anyone is in Christ, he's a new creation ... (v 16-7) [All: 2 Corinthians 5:13-17]

We should say Paul ran into trouble. That laconic statement sums up his whereabouts. Opposed to this teaching is self-help. And maybe the contemplative methods may help. We have a very long contemplative tradition inside Christianity as well. Not only modern yoga teaches gliding inside. Not only teachers hand out yoga practice along with an obscure metaphysics as partly found inside Indian Vedanta.
Be that as it may. Vedantic outlooks have dominated Hinduism for many centuries. Yoga practices happen to tame the mind or disciple considerably. And one method is to "see into your inner nature" somehow. [Ulp 25, 37-56]
All in all it seems that we have much freedom, after all, but we shouldn't lead someone astray and take his assets in so doing.

Summary

Much sinister can signify decomposition, and much maturity can signify decomposition at hand.
Ripe fruit soon becomes out of place. Bear good fruit and don't get eaten through sinister ripe, old age - out of place.
Genuine winners may become like little childen in very cosy, adaptible ways. Enter childlike doings (artistic outlets may serve) against stiffening and downfalls that come to the mature and wise of the world unless ...

Through room for mature, deep outlooks comes pondering that may consume a life, alas.
Many souls see things in different ways, but not where conformity rules foremost and none thinks differently.
Many gurus are winners on the shoulders and backs of many followers - they give fame and other blessings by dispensing with good things. It can be practice that goes against "Walk in my ways" - The Lord.

Let there be room for better thinking all through life. It is easier said than done at times.

The Christian heritage
shouldn't be done away with
in the name of Jesus.

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