The Plumber 2
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• Meeting Life Anew after SRF
• Walnut Sausages of the "Move on" Sort T
• Assessments of "Move on, Dearrrie"
| Supporting reservations are presupposed throughout: |
Meeting Life Anew after SRF
A story of Will Rogers
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| Venus from Milo |
"See what will happen to you if you don't stop biting your fingernails."
One of the good old goals of Zen is a higher awareness that helps us to be concretely in the here-and-now, actually. We need enough basic awareness to fully take in that we sit in front of screens and type things. Maybe:
- To get things off our chest;
- To find someone(s) to communicate with;
- To show off;
- To gloat, although we have been hurt too:
- There can be many other reasons.
Into the Postings
After some postings we may get caught in debates that we just did not call for. It has happened. Further, many others tell even repeatedly they are dissatisfied, feel they move in circles, after having expressed what they wanted and maybe ten times more -Some want to teach others better manners (bless them), and we are not all alike. Finding some truth depends on being calm and highly aware. Some who once were arrested by Yogananda, have come to wonder that it would have been better NOT to have come in contact with those who run SRF nowadays.
"I am sure I would be farther along if I had never come in contact with the bad ladies [mothers of SRF] . . .", writes KSome on the Walnut Board don't trust each other [Didgeridootoo]
The Walnut Board has slowed down for various reasons. KS thinks there may not be much more to say. Not so: About a hundred years ago physicists thought they had solved all theoretical problems of physics too - and then Einstein and relativity came along, and a lot else. Yes, there is much more to tell, and a lot more to go for. An example:
A discussion forum could generate a group that looked into scholarly ways of referring properly (just as in style manuals). Parts of some such manuals are online. I have a couple of such manuals myself - and a huge style guide. They assist people who want to refer and give evidence in the ways scholars think to be fit for most part. And there has been a need for that on the Walnut Board, an expressed need. But if the Walnut Board stands still, it hardly matters.
To sum up, a fine discussion board COULD assist those members who want it, to think and express in neater ways by steps and stages. Thereby the discussion board could assist neat development along some lines. Such development should help RECOGNITION, that is, make it easier to recognise stuff.
Proclamations against False Christs
Few fellowship members seem interested in finding out what the Bible’s Jesus stated against having more than one master (himself), against false guides, false Christs, that he compared to wolves. In short, I wonder how it is possible to be so "limitlessly" naïve.Judged from the Bible evidence, it seems that Yogananda sucked and bulged grandly from quite imagined alignment with the Jesus that the four gospels write about.
There is much evidence in the Bible that goes much against proclamations by Yogananda.
Who Was He?
In one discourse Yogananda tells that when Jesus was born, he himself was there too, and three of his nearest gurus in the line were the wise men. Tradition has it that they were three wise men, but the Bible doesn't give any number. And besides, they were not so very wise, since they did not understand what Herod was about till it was too late for a lot of murdered babies and children. Herod had them killed, after the wise men helped him to track the birthplace of Jesus, it is written.Who were in the stable besides the not too wise men? An ox, a donkey, Mary and Joseph; there are these to choose among too.
In works of Shyama Lahiri, published by Sanskrit Classics in San Diego, Shyama Lahiri goes into HIS past lives, and never mentions he was one of the so-called wise men at all. Maybe it was not that important -
Last, but not least, the so-called wise men who were led by a wandering star, were not led by a star at all, for stars don't move about as described in the Bible. They don't move such as the gospel describes. A star shines uniformly over the side of the earth that turns toward it, and not specifically over one or many spots on earth either, not to our knowledge.
A UFO; however, is said to emit strong, white light and move about, but that is quite another tale.
Sincerity
In the science versus religion debate, humility is a boon, and so is wisdom (implied).There are many sorts of religion, though. Here is a saying that speaks volumes: "I am a Millionaire. That's my religion." - George Bernard Shaw.
It has to be considered. It deserves that.
When it comes to science, we have the testimony of notables like Werner von Braun on it: "Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing."
"Luck is better than science (Proverb)" has to be taken into account too. All the above shows to me that - ah - there is room for nuances.
Conform humility could be overrated
WHAT PEOPLE like to call humility is often the outward garb of merely social, strategical calculations. Where calls for humility smell of demands for conformity, those involved may not have progressed too much. Sincerity can work well, however, depending on where you are and those you are with, and so on. There is much to consider:"It matters not what religion an ill man is of."
"Twin fools, one doubts nothing, the other, everything."
These and many more proverbs may enlarge our horizons.
There is much to be said for faith too, and guessing is not exactly it. Hence we should "Put no faith in tale bearers." I have to presume that that is not the faith you call for either.
As for me, I find this to be good, "Open your eyes to the facts."
Q Do you distrust your friends when they do something for which you can see no immediate rational explanation, or claim to have done something which you think unlikely?"
That would depend on what their claims were. See a story:
Skilled
John Cremony was a famous Western figure. He told one story of a desperate flight from pursuing Indians."I had a fine horse and managed to keep far enough ahead so their arrows couldn't reach me. I picked 'em off until my last cartridge was gone. Then I headed up a canyon. It ended in a sheer wall. I was trapped like a rat with a dozen Apaches closing in on me. And me without as much as a penknife to defend myself."
"What happened, Colonel?" someone in his audience would invariably ask.
"Why, they killed me! Damn them, sir, they killed me!"
Walnut Sausages of the "Move on" Sort
Move on if you move the here-now . . .
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Most of these gleanings are from the Walnut Board, and two of them are from another board. In the clippings that are brought into system below, the "move on"-emphasis has been added for easy identification. Comments may be added; the systemic approach allows for that.
1 - Stop Drawling "move on" Indiscriminatingly
In regard to "move on" and stop complaining -- I disagree. First, I have never been a monk -- at least in this incarnation. . . . I feel a responsibility . . . Also, I have high hopes that things will change in the future, and because Dwapara Yuga keeps moving forward inexorably things WILL change. [Should Free (1/20/02 11:41 pm)]Various spritual org.s . . . encouraged me to follow MY path, and blessed me when it was time for me to leave their organizational construct, to move on to my next step. [premdas (12/16/01 11:47 am)]
Most people that become disillusioned with SRF continue to hold onto their views of fear and attachment to Yogananda. Most people there feel that they're moving on by just dealing with the corruption of the organization. But I feel the problem begins and ends with Yogananda. . . . You gotta drop [that] Charley [Manson] as well if you want to truly move on emotionally and spiritually. [YellowBeard (11/14/03 6:22 pm)]
I think we agree, that every individual must choose for themselves the best path to follow. For a long time I put the effort into SRF, but things change and I came, through life experience, to understand it was time for me to move on. [gardendiva (10/2/02 6:47 am)]
The position I am taking is that let SRF be like the current leaders want it to be, take advantage of whatever it has to offer (its different for everyone), and if/when one gets to the point of not being able to grow anymore or benefit from the society, or if its damaging to your life than let it go and move on to something better fitted for you. [redpurusha (1/3/03 8:06 am)]
Discussion
The first post has a rather fatalistic ring to it, and presents the concept of eras (time periods called yugas. Dwapara yuga corresponds more or less to the Bronze Age of the ancient Greeks. The connection is loose.Moving on means many different things. The third posting speaks of things to do after leaving not just SRF, but its guru founder, Paramahansa Yogananda (1893 - 1952) too.
The next post speaks of leaving SRF with less guilt or no guilt - because leaving SRF is a guilt issue to some. It has to do with a teaching that says that the guru and SRF are one and the same, and so on. But the guru also identifies with such as "the pores of the sky" and "the grass-blades" to walk over in his poem "God! God" God!". In a conflict, it is wise to make a good selection. And why not listen to Edmund Hoyle: "When in doubt, win the trick."
2 - Maybe moving on doesn't work
Could you please post the contact info for the Pasadena therapist . . . ? He/she is obviously familiar with SRF and the many issues that have arisen for those who struggle to move on. [InSearch (1/12/02 7:34 pm)]Make sure you're in good health. . . . it might not be a bad idea to see if you could also access some counseling. . . . These two things can be tremdously helpful is giving you a stable base from which to move on to your spiritual journey / If you are asking what is the "right" path to follow, you can only find that for yourself . . . [gardendiva (10/22/02 1:07 pm)]
I can just move on. [etzchaim (11/4/03 1:30 pm)]
It just may be that the SRF environment just didn't work for many people, monastics and lay members, alike. Or they felt they had to move on. As the former Sister Dhriti allegedly said to her fellow nuns, "I am leaving because I can no longer grow spiritually in this place." And, yes, perhaps some of us are running away from lessons we need to learn. [chuckle chela (10/29/02 7:48 pm)]
Yes, we all may have to wait until we get to the other side, but then maybe it won't matter. It would be nice if we could all just move on and not have it matter now. . . . I have moved on to another guru, but I am still working all this out in my head, trying to understand it all. Why, I don't know. [nagchampa2 (2/11/04 5:28 pm)]
Discussion
A cult may bring about many problems to struggle with for members who (a) didn't adapt full well in the large society, and (c) did not adapt full well in the cult setting either. Good health is supposedly holistic; manifested by inner sides (thoughts and feelings), bodily fare, in one's social fields and the surroundings, and so further. When the planet is not well run - it is the case - does it speak about our inner health or not? Hurry to find out and then tell me.Just to move on without enough regard for the holistic health and the foundation, might actually do more good than harm - or more harm than good - depending on one's luck and other factors, unforeseen ones included.
Those who defend moving on by lack of (registered) spiritual growth, have to deal with the official attitude of SRF in the matter: that spiritual growth is not always easy to note, not always easy to become aware of, that it may take time to some, and so on. And this line of thinking serves to comfort some. I don't know how many.
Who is right? Well, it could be both sides. It is hard to generalise about this. But at least you have the SRF view, voiced by Sri Daya Mata above.
And SRF has made it next to impossible to move on to another guru without guilt, I daresay. They have got us there. We find a quotation by HH Yogananda on top of another string to that effect. It says that several incarnations, at least, must pass before one is given another such glorious chance as having a guru like Yogananda again.
3 - Maybe you ought to move on if you are deeply changed thereby
I believe its possible to take advantage of what SRF has to offer, regarding PY's message, and leave whatever else one considers detrimental to one's progress, behind. "Be like the wise ant, seize the sugar..." -SY [SY: Sri Yukteswar, Indian swami] Or, take their approach to God as far as you can to your benefit, and then move on to whatever suits you best. (and feel no guilt about it) [redpurusha (12/17/02 7:35 am)]I have read in many places that Master used to say to people to try the techniques sincerely for a year, and if they didn't feel benefited, to move on with his blessing. Sure sounds to me like he knew that not every person on the planet was his disciple . . . I would sure hate to give up just because no one who KNOWS ever took the time to explain it to me. Or I could never find such a person. [Jaded (11/18/01 2:38 pm)]
I respectfully disagree on the degree to which you claim the lessons abuse "us", although I sympathize with you in that they affect you so deeply. Maybe its time to move on? I say this w/love and for the sake of your peace. [premdas (2/14/02 9:19 pm)]
Some have suffered greatly at the hands of SRF . . . I wonder how . . . a community with that kind of baggage can . . . claim to have changed and then move on? Words are cheap. [member108 (10/4/02 9:55 pm)]
Does a teaching/belief . . . bring you down? And if it brings you down, let it go and move on to search for tha which inspires you to inner heights. [premdas (2/5/04 10:29 am)]
Discussion
To correct a minor detail, the eclectic (selective) viewpoint of seizing sugar and leaving sand alone, stems from Babaji, not Sri Yukteswar. It seems to boil down to this: "Take, take, not so much give and share any more." Maybe it has come to this, that taking may become a necessity and far from bad - in a wider scheme of things you have to have resources in order to have anything to give.One large problem is that Yogananda apparently said many things, and also some different things, and SRF has selected some of the much variegated sayings. They seem to be "sanctioned" and endorsed by the church of kriya, thus. And sayings a church endorses, may never undermine that church. It may be as simple as that. At times.
Some have suffered greatly because of the SRF cult. I am among those. But maybe most of those who never get out of the cult, suffer much more - inside.
Premdas thinks that soaring things are good. Still, down-to-earth things help one to build the better life that could be needed. One has to reflect on which approach works best for oneself - or maybe it is the soaring heights down to earth, a combination of the two, just as Yogananda endorsed by his slogan "plain living and high thinking". We find it when it comes to the guru's brotherhood communites - which were abandoned. That disappointed me greatly when I visited SRF after having read the Autobiography and how it glorified such self-serving communities - only to find that SRF had abandoned them. Great cognitive dissonance followed for a long time - in part subconsciously.
4 - Older folks may get uncovered and disturbed by moving
The teachings in SRF don't help much with this, making subtle remarks about all the negative things that will happen if you leave the path, kriya, the guru etc. . . . this is a very scary thing for a lot of people . . . . This board and communications with others who have uncovered facts that I was unaware of, have helped me move on. [gardendiva (6/29/02 7:19 am)]If you look back at some of my older posts, I mentioned that I was young and lacked a certain amount of discretion and self-knowledge when I first began to get the lessons. I'm older now, possibly more wise (always a relative term)] and am more honest with myself. It's given me the opportunity to "move on," although I wouldn't recommend it to anyone that didn't feel it was the right for them. [gardendiva (10/29/02 12:06 pm)]
Discussion
SRF did send out many messages that served to keep a following. Asking for donations was typical.Without honesty to oneself, how can self-knowledge be possible? To be true to yourself, there has to be honesty. We have to let good honesty and savoury truthfulness walk hand in hand -
5 - Both hanging out and moving on may cost a lot
After having been involved with Yogananda and SRF for around twenty years, then becoming informed, disillusioned and now finally feeling like I've moved on, I now feel compelled to post to these two boards. [mikeherenow (11/14/03 10:41 am)]I guess I'll continue to hang out until it feels like time to move on. [Pig Ma (4/4/02 8:27 pm)]
I have moved on to another guru, but I am still working all this out in my head, trying to understand it all. Why, I don't know. [nagchampa2 (2/11/04 5:28 pm)]
I often see sites and then move on losing track of where I saw them. [peer345 (1/14/02 1:17 am)]
I'm new to SRF but I've been meditating off and on for twenty years, . . . I think for me it may be like . . . the kundalini is stuck at the second chakra. Maybe if the energy could just move on through there and up [SerenityNow7 (12/7/03 8:27 am)]
Even though many other groups came forward with declarations against SRF having the copyright on self realization, SRF still appealed that decision to the extent that the law would allow. It's a very expensive process. In this case the ruling of the court made such common sense, I am sorry that SRF was not able to accept it and move on. [Pig Ma (3/9/02 7:01 am)]
Yogananda was struggling with some ego issues, / move on, I say! / SRF also needs to move on. [etzchaim (12/19/03 5:37 am)]
I agree, redpurusha: if you don't think things are going to change . . . move on. "What else is one to do?" you ask. . . . you need to decide whether you can support the organization as it is. If you can't, then move on. [chuckle chela (1/3/03 6:15 pm)]
Discussion
Two approaches appear: (1) To move on and try to sort out things from then on. (2) To try to understand things before taking further action.I am sorry to say I let three years slip by in an attempt to understand why the gurus could allow the things I objected against in their society. I could not imagine they were out of it, or that they did not mean well, or were crooks.
The lesson I slowly learnt is: I should listen better inwards - in many situations where SRF or Yogananda was into it.
Assessments of "Move on, Dearrrie"
MADDENING: "Move on" (American credo that fits restless nerves). Where to? To Alaska?AGAINST THAT: "I am always here. Where can I go?" (Ramana Maharsi). He spent his adult life on a hill-side.
SOLUTION: Use the past as the trees use the soil - to draw nourishment from it for "the present and possible future" - the unfolding present, that is. A tree stands firm.
On the Walnut Board not a few postings are met with "Move on" by other posters, perhaps with no other directions. Just "Move on". It seems too stupid, and is far from sensitive in some of the contexts. In Rogerian councelling it is the client who is to find out his or her feelings and what to do - through a process of rumination. Urgings like "Move on" may violate that process, which is sensitive. That's life. And what may come may be uncertain. What would have become of us if we hadn't joined SRF (for a while) is not certain either.
Instead of "Move on", I prefer "Make the best out of it." A tree on a hill-side does it - it always tries.
Often it is best to take a deep look. Look to a tree: along with unfoldment of branches and leaves, there is a need for deepening and broadening roots. It helps not to neglect to take a look (before we leap).
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Four Strong Winds and "Moving on"
Four strong winds that blow lonelySeven seas that run high
All these things that won't change come what may
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
I'll look for you if I'm ever back this way.
Four strong winds that blow lonely
Seven seas that run high
All these things that won't change come what may
If I get there before the snow flies
And things are going good
You could join me if I send you down the fare
But if you wait until it's winter
It would do no good
For the wind sure can blow cold way out there.
Four strong winds that blow lonely
Seven seas that runs high
. . come what may.
"Map" Symbols
Strong winds that won't change: A symbol of Kriya yoga.Seven seas: The one ocean of awareness or God is sevenfold.
Seas that run high: Manifestations are the mighty white-caps of the seas.
Things that won't change: Idolatry in SRF circles.
Back this way: Reincarnating again - how scientifically based is that?
The snow: Symbol of kriya devotees that get colder inside through burning up their secret reserves - maybe.
Join me: Do a sympathetic method of yoga and self-development. Awareness is much into it. Yoga comes from yoke, and is related to join.
Blow cold: Kriya yoga in one of its phases (quite impossible to penetrate unless you know how to do it.
Practical-Spiritual Experimentation
Fisher, you are told to move on and do it because:- You thought you were given valuable counsel without evidence of that?
- You never stopped to think twice, considering that some second thoughts could be very, very good?
- To move is to "die" a bit (French wisdom) and you need that?
- One often loses much through moving and you found that out too late?
Maybe - just maybe - you need to study some of the facets of "the trap" that caught you unaware, if it did that, and if you can. For unless you were outright deceived, there might have been something in yourself that made you susceptible or vulnerable - "It takes two to a tango" is a word to consider.
It may be a lot easier to get aware of some guru fallacies or marring teachings on the sites close to the guru boundaries - but if it is overly risky and there are likely to be unforeseen dangers involved . . . How can you know? Maybe through this, if you manage to crack the codes:
Look at the sea - take a deep look: Listen to its distant booming thundering roars, look at the bright waves and billows - do they dance playfully or turn sinister?
You must be prepared for foul weather when you least expect it.
And a boat probably cannot afford having big holes or many small holes beneath the water surface. Things like these matter (to me).
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Adjoined
Ak: Yogananda, Pa.: Man's Eternal Quest. Los Angeles: Self-Realization Fellowship, 1975.Ap: Mieder, Wolfgang (main editor), Stewart A. Kingsbury, and Kelsie E. Harder: A Dictionary of American Proverbs. (Paperback) New York: Oxford University Press, 1996.
Ay: Yogananda, Paramahansa. Autobiography of a Yogi. 1st ed. New York: Theosophical, 1946. Online. [oaks.nvg.org/pv6bk12.html]
Ebu: Encyclopaedia Britannica. Encyclopaedia Britannica 2006 Ultimate Reference Suite DVD. London: Encyclopaedia Britannica, 2006.
Pa: Yogananda, Paramahansa. Autobiography of a Yogi. 11th ed. Los Angeles: Self-Realization Fellowship, 1971.
Say: Yogananda, Paramahansa. Sayings of Yogananda. Los Angeles: Self-Realization Fellowship, 1958.
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