• Devotee Contributions
• Devotee Quarrels
• Lay Counselling on a Yogananda Devotee Board
  • Group 1: Lay Councelling
  • Group 2: Various Sorts of Loyalty
  • Group 3: Denigrating up to Harshly ☥
  • Group 4: Allowing Some Thinking ☥

Devotee Contributions

The Broken Tooth Abstract

First, devotees are a mixed lot. Let us add to that.

Devotees of Yogananda belong in a cult where the guru-founder teaches among other things that the world is illusory, a dream, and God is the Doer. He, his teachings, and devoted "army" of followers, do they exist if the world does not? And do they matter? If you think they do, you disregard that side to the guru's teachings, the side that is the biggest of them all as it encompassed the whole, wide universe as we know it.

The guru Paramahansa Yogananda once said, "f I had a thousand mouths, I would speak through them all to convince you. [Ak 111]. — HUM: Well, a hundred nasty tooth-aches at the same time could make self-molesting desires dwindle and go away.

Yogananda also told devoted followers that God could supply a third set of teeth. He also said, in another place, "We have a first and then a second set of teeth; why not a third?" [Ak 255]. — HUM: But see how very rarely it happens. It has been reported to happen to very elderly humans and in even more rare cases of younger people who have had their permanent teeth removed. [Wikipedia, s.v., "Permanent teeth"]

As for Yogananda, on his return trip to India in 1935-36, in Gorakhpur

he bit into a sugar-cane and accidentally cracked a tooth from the lower mandible. Everyone became flustered by this and Swamiji was eventually taken to the finest dentist in the city, who pulled the broken tooth out and replaced it with a gold one. No news was sent to Calcutta about this. After Swamiji returned to Calcutta, the gold tooth caught the writer's eye, and when he asked about it, Swamiji put his right index finger on his lips and said, "No negative talk!" [Psy 83]

God did not even give him one third tooth, and added that one day She would kill him. Note that well. [Ibid]

A realistic appraisal is far from negative, although it may be embarrassing to faithful devotees of big talk. So much for trust in oratory in general. Nonetheless the unabashed guru taught others to put faith in God who could give a third set of teeth. Add, "But will She? How often does that happen? What are the odds? The answer is "The odds are not good."

Variations among devotees

There are several discussion boards focused on the soapy Yogananda, his sugar-cany faith-teachings, and his dwindling fellowship, if its sacked vice president Kriyananda has got the trend right: [More]

The SRF Walrus has been mentioned on a previous page or three. There was also the harsher "Backwater", which now is defunct. It used to be more offensive to devotees, and some censored discussion boards for glowing Alf-devotees, including "The Alf Devotee Board". Below are the results of a not too serious, spurious investigation into a SRF-related board of the latter sort, to see what the contributors come up with, by and large, after the filtering, the censorship. It shows up there are differences among them, and growing differences too. They are not "bliss bunnies" all of them; variations of "O my, o great, o feel" is not the only thing they go into. Far from it.

As a result of probings I managed to group the various contributions into four large groups, depending on what was the focus: conselling one another; being loyal to Yogananda; denigrating critics; and striving for thinking. So that is what the devotees do instead of talking to one another in person.

The rest of this page elaborates on these findings in two steps, and furnishes the basis I have drawn the conclusions from. Comments are there too. Not everything is slapstick.

In case you missed the highlights on a previous page: There have been fair or reasonable reasons for using various gambits of distance-making when topics are difficult: Creating psychological by fable-attuned means help mental distance to hard issues at times, and may tend to help overview and more rational coping later -but let me drop such masks here and there, and make it clear that 'Sir Alf' stands for Yogananda, 'QUAG' for SRF, 'Backwater' for a certain discussion board that has been shut down by now - like the SRF Walrus seems to be today too. Lack of stability is a problem unless you are careful to download string after string so that you can document your findings later, just in case. Guess what, it has happened! Yet, the changes of names were mainly for the fun of it. 'HUM' stands for 'Comment'.

Four Groups with Key Indicators

1. Personal, lay counselling - some judicious and pertinent in a Sir Alf setting, and some more tendentious, even uncalled for.
2. Certain loyalty issues.
3. Denigrating critics in public and treating all Backwater posters alike.
4. Striving for good clues. Allowing thinking.

Group 1 - Lay Counceling

The following items were found there:

• Probing for pieces of advice, not knowing what to do.
• Bolstering the Faith.
• Being saddened by the "Satan" found.
• Sharing personal experiences to try to help another Alf follower.
• Needing to be able to relate to what is found - or better - cope with what comes up.
• "Damned if you do, damned if you don't".
• Professionals may seldom give free advice on a discussion board, and note that.
• Yoga allows for it in the raja yoga schemes.

Group 2 - Various Sorts of Loyalty

• In cults and sects we find abandoned, depraved, or demoralizing loyalty, and halfway damning thoughts like "Don't believe what good you read about Sir Alf on other sites . . . (Grinda, extracted)"
• What is to work for good, should avoid negations (no-stuff).
• You may see for yourself that parts of the Alf's soap theology doesn't hold water, and yoga is resting on truthfulness, satya, as a basic, integral thing. Shame on the falsity-spreader. Another page gives ample samples of the guru's false Christianity.
• Against it there is a limiting mentality "Don't believe anyone else" or "Don't try to argue with fools. They will drag you down", and so on.

Group 3 - Denigrating

Denigation is smearing. It is one of the unfair means of discussions. There are many, many others. Now where is the evidence that mocking others, including Daya Mata and other nuns, helps anyone?

1. PEOPLE AT QUAG are mocked by the moderator of Backwater for the sake of preserving a feeling of being good guy or fit enough somehow, I assume.

• Some doings have written "bad devotee" all over them.
• "We are good, nay, blessed - Gurus are what we have invested goodness in" is not fronted by accident.

2. IT IS NEEDED IS TO BALANCE well throughout life.

• Good shelters, walls and hedges are nothing to despise, and frequently used to serve villas and homes.

3. THE SEPTIC TANK FOLKS are not all sweetness, nor is everything in QUAG. Some who are not well grounded, they hiss.

• Black Arts a few centuries ago could give rise to persecutions, torture and deaths that were not accidents. We don't want it.
• Listen to me," is a predominant attitude in lay followers counseling other lay followers. The problem is that each person's problem is an individual thing, and may require an individually tailored attempt at solution, at least.
• It is a bit of a shock to google QUAG
• And quite considerately Lucknow thinks, "Some people expect everyone in QUAG to be saints, but I guess if we were saints we wouldn't be here."
• Why wallow in the mud, invited to it by the Backwater moderator? you may ask.
• Happiness may be forfeited. The path that the beginners think is a true path, may be a set-up.

Group 4 - Where some amount of thinking is allowed

This is a part of what we have to deal with:

• Oh my! There is even documentation at Backwater! . . .
• Cult life can be pleasant also. Don't forget that.
• Most important parts of the the Alf theology suck
• Not cute . . . Out to destroy
• The question of valid evidence of this and that
• In QUAG truths are treated as quirks too. Never forget it.
• You may feel the Alf-guided, but it was to your hurt, you find years later.
• What documentation is here? one asks Blue Funboy

The presentation of this somewhat informal study, consists of simplified findings, that may be useful to some, unlike this Gandhi quote:

If the lambs of the world had been willingly led, they would have long ago saved themselves . . . [Gandhi, T-2-52]

I don't quite agree with that one.

Devotee Quarrels

Not all discussion board messages look divine

The Internet discussion board is a difficult medium. It is easy to get filled with bad feelings and let thoughts and words follow suit. One of the reasons is the tendency to focus on drastic and alarming things and respond to them over and above spending time and column space on confirming, establishing and elaborating enough on agreeable stuff in the first place.

Alf thought: "Interestingly, initial gratitude and later misgivings may be secretly related."

The vehement harangues: There are some discussion boards where those who post don't try to climb to higher regions where Tibetan yak oxen may be found, and instead seek to raise nastiness like dust clouds in the lower regions among themselves. When a topic gets interesting, things could get hot and too hot for some. Then harangues could be under way. The delicate "divine phraseology" crack a bit, and human nature, which is hardly spoken of as fully divine, at times oozes up vehemently, serving needs of self-defence and strong, vehement self-righteousness, as the case may be.

Perverted postings: The sort of intimacy between people who use nicknames and who do not know each other, is intriguing. The discussion board as a medium opens up for ranting writings, in part because different people address many different and not always particularly well related topics.

Riff-raff needs to be dropped. Some message boards are severely censured due to roughly held aims of the boards and civilized manners that need protection from riff-raff, which "plays" to wreak havoc or vengeance - whatever. Maddened posting series where offending people seem to love to distort facts can result and the interest in such strings may rise for a brief spell till something else takes over. Anyway, focusing on extreme utterances tend to soil the debate where fairness falls and much cheap argumentation gloats. Fad selections and gloating on top of it seem unworthy to all but those who stand in need of correction. Misleading folly can have serious consequences. What about "The unverified methods failed me. Now most of it must be bad - whine)."?

Moderate censorship may work for both good and bad. Censorship which is festered by arbitrary deleting of postings and limiting the access to take part, may do less good that moderators behind it thinks. All that may be felt to be necessary a long time, till the goings get boring enough -

Irreconcilable views among some. Discussion boards that link up to QUAG do not harmonise perfectly with one another and often get misgivings about those who do not seem to conform in some way or other. Now there is room for many sorts of people and activities in this world anyway.

The Backwater's moderator tends to beat his own set-up purposes

The Backwater moderator set up a discussion board against cults, and used and misused it for other ends. A guru devotee with ulteriour motives may in time turn conniving, untruth-ridden, regressive and over-dogmatic.

A "Wise Old Owl perched high up in a tree" once posted something like this, "The metaphor about quivering rabbits [for bliss bunnies, alias SRF devotees] makes us miss a few neat points to consider. What about

"I threw a bubble in the Sea, I was as happy as could be."

It may take some seconds or minutes to see that this is the essence of yoga, if interpreted that way . . .

Yogananda was fond of singing, "I am the bubble, make me the sea." Singing SRF monks have recorded the song too, accompanied by a hand organ. The Sea is a figurative expression of Central Mind -

The time has come to confess: "I've been there". Many of us were once happier, at any rate. Even though we today may sing "I'm wiser but sadder now", from the song Lemon Tree

Mmm - lemons

I do not intend to talk down on the lemon; that versatile helper and benefactor of humans and households. The lemon tree is one of the oldest cultivated fruit plants originated from India or northern Burma, or China or all three of them. Lemon can reduce hyperacidity in the stomach. Lemons are rich in vitamin C which strengthens the immune system and acts as an antioxant, protecting cells from radical damage. Lemon also helps anti-inflammatory action. It helps the body cleanse itself in some ways, as a natural diuretic. Lemons also stimulate the appetite, aids digestion, strengthens body defense system. Lemons are known for useful remedies for gout, urine retention, athritis, vitamin C deficiency, inflammation of the mouth and throat, hoarseness, digestive disorders, asthma, nervousness, insomnia, and heart palpitations, and helps the system with diseases of the stomach, liver and intestines - and so on.

Thus, there is no reason at all to talk down on lemons, just because they are sour. Add some sweetening and reap the health benefits they offer. Apart for being fit for lemonade, it has many household uses. [Essortment. "Natural Uses for Lemon." Demand Media 2010. http://www.essortment.com/natural-uses-lemon-53641.html] Essortment. "Unusual Household Uses For Lemon Juice." http://www.essortment.com/unusual-household-uses-lemon-juice-46187.html

It appears that rather lemon-sour experiences are frequently had, but not everybody has them. Let me add that if you queeze half a lemon in a glass of water and add some water and a natural, OK sweetener to it, you could end up with a neat drink. I frequently add some drops of lime and lemon to my Coke, since I like the taste of that. You can try it.

The Twelve of Sir Alf and what they agreed on

The Alf wished he had a hundred mouths to convince through. The road to dogmatism lies there. It's far better to present gladdening facts and let them do the speaking.

Sir Alf used catch-words like "science" and "scientific" to promote his enterprise, which revolved around turning people into his spirit serfs by bonding them thus. In science you do not want to convince, ideally, but to present facts as you can find them, conclude neatly and let others do their own thinking. Convincers may turn others into idiots (by a sectarian life-style, etc.) by demagoguery, and their assertions may be received as philosopy, faith, and other less than ideal sets of propositions.

Observe that the contributors discuss said badness of the "black-board" that is called "Backwater" . . . Yogananda taught against such vile doings:

Those who like to dwell on the faults of others are human vultures. There is already too much evil in the world. Don't talk of evil, don't think of evil, and don't do evil. Be like a rose, wafting to all the sweet fragrance of soul goodness. Make everyone feel that you are a friend; that you are a helper. [Ak 79]

That he said with "one of several mouths," perhaps, for with another mouth he said he was perfectly aligned with the teachings of Jesus. They are in the New Testament. Jesus surely dwelt on the faults of Pharisees and many others and denounced them repeatedly. Did that make Jesus a human vulture? Did he like to denouce hypocrites and to talk of evil? You get a sniff here that Yogananda was not in 100 percent harmony with Jesus after all. A more garish example is that Jesus says the soul can perish, whereas Yogananda tells it cannot. Bluffed harmony is not harmony. And the aspiring "Sweet rose," Yogananda, did evil by misleading others, lots of Americans. He should be remembered for horseplay drivel and false play!

Now, back to the devotee discussion: Many appear to be striving to present themselves as earnest devotees, and maybe some are. Not a few of them seem to have attained a "condescending peace advocates" attitude that goes along with "Bless your souls" - all of which requires very little effort, and ties in with calculations too, and perhaps not ideal humility.

"Associate with roses" is a nice councel

The string I am commenting, appeared on the "Yogananda Devotee Board Three". There were about a dozen contributors in a week's time, and their shared faith was a composite faith. They choose segments of the Alf faith as fitted them. For example, the originator of the string, Pete de la Cruiz, proposed belligerently like a crusader a dance of death over the Backwater. Others were peaceful like old owls in broad daylight. One said that one should not waste thought on the Backwater. Another said "Pray for these lost souls". Another counsel was "It is best to associate with human roses (instead)". And still another said, "Cultivate divine love."

Some got sad over "misguided souls" who appeared to "obfuscate the Truth" and counselled to "find your way home" instead. It all makes sense. They felt offended, and there are various strategies for coping with it - the ones referred to, including withdrawal, and many others.

A few more messages are that the acolytes of Satan on the Backwater board harbour ill feelings, but the loyal ones to Sir Alf's teachings had better persevere and practice. They seem to agree that there will be detraction in Sir Alf's work, and those who get swayed were not meant for the QUAG path anyway.

The cat let out? Snub guys may be seriously undermined by "divine" things here on earth

All these sentiments and notions are there to see today. You may say their guru-instilled faith easily makes them look down on others, and that QUAG IS a quite or very snub-faced society from that. I have paraphrased and rendered a neat little concoction of it all.

By way of conclusion, devotees in the Alf faith, even if initially shocked over someone gainsaying their guru, try to use incongruent thought as "fuel to resolve to follow Master" and stay away from misguided "haters of darkness". The last phrase is significantly dubious on purpose.

Lay Counselling on The Yogananda Devotee Board Three

A Background

Someone given the pen name Grandma by me, posted her feelings about the Backwater at the Yogananda Devotee Board Three. She appeared to be sadly hurt in regards to what she had read here. Her fellow devotees did not show her any proof that the Backwater was wrong, but attacked the Backwater board. Later she came to tell them that such attacks were not helping her. Next, the fellow devotee attacks of Briar, Funboy, another member continued. Grandma was left in the cold, perhaps trying to forget what she read on the Backwater board. The question is if she can.

Various Alf Devotees have shown some of their attitudes toward the rather maddened Backwater (board). They feel bad about it. There are many indications of it.

I recall from my own time as a guru-devoted, loyal beginner that it was awfully hard to let true feelings come to the fore, in a horrible conflict. The genuine feelings from inside of me were not the problem; in fact, they pointed to the way out. The imposed or induced guru-feelings and inculcated Sir-Alf-servility gave rise to being tormented. I solved the conflict by quitting QUAG and Sir Alf.

During a week or so, about 60 postings appeared on a string on the "The Yogananda Devotee Board Three". The string was mostly about Backwater for about a week. A poster wondered in response to something the Alf devotee Blue Funboy wrote on Jan 24, "When the peace of my home is compromised by whacked-out neighbors, it may be time to get tough - along with the constant prayer campaign etc. etc. . . . I might hiss!"

Group 1 - Lay Counselling

The findings revealed these deep theme - we see these items there:

• Probing for pieces of advice, not knowing what to do.
• Bolstering the Faith.
• Being saddened by the "Satan" found.
• Sharing personal experiences to try to help another Alf follower.
• Needing to be able to relate to what is found - or better - cope with what comes up.

Backwater members may be denigrated as mockers without any evidence presented, but not all on Backwater are alike and think the same. That "We can't please everybody," is plain to see.

Some want to be tough and not tolerate guru-debating boards. Others want to go into mediation and present the problems to God and guru to get help and peace of mind, while others seek counsel from others. The last approach depends on who answer you and how good answers they give. Professionals may seldom give free advice on a discussion board . . .

In the guru-linked mental schemes of some of these followers, being devoted (i.e. of bhakti-yoga) is good, and being questioning could be DANGEROUS - even though yoga allows for it - Buddhist yoga too, of course. Devotional tinges of Sir Alf may be seen to mar or complicate a sound, questioning approach to yoga and gurus, even though he advocates questioning the guru in line with Shankara's teachings in the Crest-Jewel of Discrimination [Crj]. It is fit to question the guru on many subjects, but not impolitely, Shankara tells.

Group 2 - with Lots of Loyalty

Survey

In cults and sects we may find abandoned, depraved, or demoralizing loyalty, groping and not knowing what to do. It should be understood too.

Metaphysically shaken by some problems brought on by unwelcome truths after practicing (some) guru teachings for many years, some denigrate persons and boards rather than addressing the problems well. And this may well be a mark of a cult. Against it, there is also such drastic but well-intended counsel as "Don't believe what good you read about Sir Alf on other sites . . . (Grinda, extracted)."

One fellow-devotee speaks for PRAYER-CAMPAIGNS. Such campaigns should ideally be FOR sinners, against sin, like affirmations: they should focus on dear goals, and not contain negations (no-stuff).

Since being tough at times means hiding his or her wisdom, does it mean that false allegations against folks that document that some QUAG material ascribed to the Alf doesn't hold water, may be fabricated after the Alf's death, etc, - are OK? No, for progress in higher yoga is rooted in truthfulness (satya). It is a first step. One should go for it.

Examples with retorts

"Don't wrestle with a pig. You'll just get dirty," says Joerl.

Most of the criticism that VPN has heard about the Alf and QUAG since "can all be attributed to jealousy, ignorance and the need to get even after falling out." — HUM: How fair and unbiased is he? Birds know.*

* A reference to the famous conversation of birds in the Markandeya Purana and other works of antiquity. A Jaimini asked Markandeya for instruction on four questions, and was referred to four birds, and they answered him too, also when he added many more questions, including how to be delivered from various hells and sins. [Ma]

The common phrase "birds know" may also be rooted in the said knowledge of birds who fly about. In the Norse Ynglinga Saga, for example, a certain king had sparrows that informed him about things. And Norse Odin had a couple of ravens, Hugin and Munin, to do things like that. [Nm]

Looking for material proof of metaphysical truths and techniques, become a yogi and see if what Sir Alf said is true, says Grinda. — HUM: The counsel is correct, but it is said in yoga that it may take more than a life-time to reap the results.

Some "at the Backwater Board found that the techniques did not work after practicing for many years. Rather than leaving and moving on with their lives, they have become embittered," is the understanding of Balaam. — HUM: Those who got stuck in the Alf universe, may really have a hard time sobering up. Some have gone to therapy. So it can be easier to say "Move on" that to do it gracefully.

"Find out for yourself. This is the most scientific approach you can take towards this problem," counsels Grinda. — HUM: Finding out for oneself can be good, but it may be extremely time-consuming and unrewarding work too - it may cost too much. Therefore gurus have written texts about yoga and methods and enabled instructors to teach - just to save you trouble.

ANOTHER recalls he once saw a poster that read "Don't try to argue with fools. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with their experience." — HUM: Who are fools if "It is a fool who cannot hide his wisdom"? (It is a proverb)

Grandma soon entered the ring again - and again - for she had hoped that someone on the Devotee Board could offer her proof that the allegations against QUAG and the Alf were false. She got problems there, and later started to post on the Backwater board herself.

Group 3: Denigrating Harshly

The people at the Backwater board and "those terrible sites" are smeared severely for the sake of preserving a feeling of being good guys, supposedly

Blue Funboy tells how he once "challenged them [the Backwater Board] to reveal themselves, who they were and how they thought they "knew" so much." So he was labeled an evil "insider" in league with the "bad ladies," [those who head QUAG in the mire of the world, he writes.]

"The people at Backwater are against every Alf . . ., (including every one that he hold dear). They are against all the spiritual traditions of India and the west. Their life is dedicated to planting seeds of doubt in his mind," decrees Jumjoy. — HUM: This reminds of the psychiatrist's question while attempting to diagnose paranoia: "Is everbody in the world against you?" - Correct answer: "Most people in the world don't know me, so how can they?" It is thought to be unwise to judge all alike, anyhow.

Many have got confused and despairing from "adverse tidings", says Oldsong to Grandma. And Jumjoy comes to the insight that, "Anger probably won't help." And Blue Funboy finds that the Walruses, "they truly are worthy of ignoring." — HUM: There are "485 total members" and 28 242 total posts on the SRF Walrus board. Are all worth ignoring? Some members write under different pseudonyms, but it is not just one persons who has written over 28 000 postings on a variety of subjects under different names. The postings are not all alike. There is something wrong with the counsel to treat them all alike and as worthless. It is done to undermine, to take worth away, and if blinkers will do, they wear them. Lily tells she has always felt blessed that she never by accident came accross "those terrible sites".

Blue Funboy might want to resist looking in the mirror, that "outer source". Yet what is needed is to find a suitable balance

BLUE FUNBOY says he tries to give no outer source (events, words or people) the power to make him feel any way at all (and react accordingly). — HUM: There is some good with having an armadillo shell to hide inside, and there is much good in having solid brick walls too. (4)

Septic tank folks are not all sweetness, nor is everything in QUAG. some who are not well grounded, they hiss

Hart finds that now he knows that he has a septic tank, but only looks in it when absolutely necessary." — HUM: But Lily beats him, I should say, for one day Lily checked out a site, she tells, and the subject lines alone were enough. She felt that that website was in a dark dark realm. She honestly felt polluted just by reading the subjects without the details, and found she could not drive away the darkness by beating it (etc). — HUM: The Black Arts a few centuries ago could give rise to similar airy (not eery) mentions, not very long ago. Guimme adds. "Keep in mind . . . the characteristics/leanings and generally mentally and spiritually unhealthy attitudes of persons who work on these sites," he adds.

"Criticism like this is not all bad. A false Alf will not stand up to it," says KFH. (6)

Guimme further says, "Devotees who are not well grounded will have doubts."

"Talk to your heart's content on THIS board," counsels Hart. Yoga Bliss consideres that "Who are disturbed by the Backwater website, which attacks and defames our Sir Alf, and other saints. Most devotees aren't inclined to go to that website and hiss, or fight back. Why wallow in the mud with those people"?

Blue Funboy: "One thing 30 years on this path will do for one: A deep realization that we are nobodies and we know nothing." But did he sign "Nobody has written nothing he knows", did he? He has a problem there. (7)

Nojdw thinks that many of the participants of "those boards" are extremely psychologically unstable. Especially the moderators. — HUM: Amen to that last bit.

Balaam fills in, telling that if we "read between the lines, many of the people on these boards went to temples or meditation groups, and then got into personal conflicts with other devotees, . . . They're now lashing out." [Balaam on 01/23/2005] — HUM: The problem with reading between the lines, is that there is nothing written there. So who is lashing out?

Gist

1. The people at Backwater and "those terrible sites" are smeared severely due to consternation, and perhaps for the sake of preserving a feeling of being good guys -
2. Blue Funboy might want to resist looking in the mirror, that "outer source". Yet what is needed is to find a suitable balance.
3. Septic tank folks are not all sweetness, nor is everything in QUAG. Some who are not well grounded, hiss. There are acceptable ways of doing that too, though.

The people are at getting and keeping an feeling and image of being OK, by hood, by crook or by straight means too. And suitable folks are very well grounded.

Group 4: Allowing Some Thinking

Errors in the Christianity-infiltrating demaguguery-theology of Sir Alf can cause long-time troubles

If QUAG is a 'true religion', its followers should be able to look any critic in the eye and face their criticism, is the opinion of Dixon Craig. — HUM: It is not a matter of "if they are true", mainly, but how far they work, and how good they are for yourself, your children and descendants - that is, in the long run. Some of the teachings may be studied without practicing them, too: See what the Catholic professor called Father Matheo, has concluded: "Heresy," he says: [Link].

Now Grandma says something memorable, "Backwater is using documentation, and this is what bothers me . . . I don't know how to get around the documentation," and she is sorry if she is not a devotee who can take things on faith, she says too. — HUM: There is no reason to be worried by documentation, and proper yoga allows candid, fair inspections and other forms of rational activity.

"Love and sweetness should be expressed," maintains Blue Funboy.

"Once we respond [to such as Backwater and other "horrible sites"], the nuisance will get only louder," predicts JoiAlf.

We can see that Grandma seems to be of two minds as to what to do. Over just a few days, in some postings she she is bothered by the documentation on the Backwater board and maintains she is sorry if she is not a devotee who can take things on faith. And then another posting shows wavering: "Thank you all from the bottom of my heart. now I will just have to never return to that web site again because much of what was said made sense to me, — HUM: It is a privilege of a woman to change her mind.

Ptaj finds "their thougts are destructive . . ." — HUM: The division between "us" and "them" is rather marked - "those horrible sites" that Lily had not even read. Compare: "Though by whim, envy, or resentment led, they damn those authors whom they never read," writes Charles Churchill in a different setting.

2. Cult life can be pleasant too

Grandma tells she was always taught that she should search out the truth. — HUM: She is now in a tight spot.

"Other claims consist of gossip impossible to "prove" one way or another," Balaam finds, and "Some of the claims are demonstrably false (such as, you're instructed to hold your breath while doing Hong Sau, dangerously depriving you of oxygen - or to visualize a cultic symbol while doing the Aum technique)." — HUM: I find his stand to be excellent. The moderator at the Backwater board was all at sea at times, just as Balaam gives an example of. Authoritarian ways and mind-sets hinder inner growth.

Life is full of destructive parts and persons too, and "magical cults"

3. Very important parts of the Sir Alf Theology sucks

Back to Grandma: She informs on the Alf devotee board that after coming across the Backwater board she lost the ability to meditate and called the QUAG Center, and they basically said the same thing: "Meditate, pray to Alfji, and don't return to those boards." — HUM: Gentemen and ladies, here at last is heavy-weight counsel and influence in the matter. The price of adhering to it is that of limiting yourself or your horizon, perhaps for your own good, depending on dangers from outside. But basically such shying serves cultishness rather than free investigations. Not everything that cultish people find terrible, dark and dangerous, is really so.

"Life is filled with lessons and complexities - thank God . . . yes we should aways respond with love and forgiveness," Blue Funboy asks. And JoiAlf further says, "Some years ago at the convocation, there were some QUAG detractors holding placards and demonstrating. . . . Layi Mata [current president] . . . is reported to have said "What would Alfiji do in this situation? He would leave them alone". — HUM: That reminds me of the old joke, "There's a right way of doing a thing, the wrong way, and the way of the Army."

"You don't need to go there [to Backwater] and jump into the manure pile," advocates Blue Funboy.

Kloraquanda, finds: "The Walrus Board - many posters there have much experience within QUAG and know "of what they speak." Others are simply out to destroy. Backwater is primarily the latter." — HUM: Well, I agree to some degree.

"The site that Grandma is asking her questions about is not the relatively tame (by comparison) Walrus site, but an entirely different one," tells Oldsong, clearing up a mistake. — HUM: "There, there," functions too.

The point not to ignore: Find out how they work before you commit yourself in a grand way

5. The question of valid evidence of this and that

Balaam writes he has read the various allegations and have been left underwhelmed by them, both by the pettiness of the so-called 'extra' "a" and by the mendacity. — HUM: He seems to mean the QUAG-added 'a' in Alafahansa. *

Yogananda himself spelled his swami title 'Paramhansa'. In the 50s SRF put an extra 'a' in there, as if Paramhansa was not long enough. The nice word "Pramhans" is not in regular use. [Link]

The harangues of the Backwater moderator against QUAG methods were mostly unfounded. Besides, anecdotal evidence is generally inferior evidence: telling of a few cases is not good enough as valid evidence. That is the point. So when I now and then think of telling stories of QUAG members killing themselves, I think, "I don't know enough of each case. I don't know how many out of a thousand who kill themselves either, as compared to the general population." It is uninformed to blame QUAG for suicides if suicides on the whole are less frequent in the cult than outside it." That's what I think.

" Remember that Sir Alf said that when he comes back, he wouldn't even recognize QUAG," warns Kloraquanda. — HUM: "Who really knows these things, Who can here ensure?"

6. In QUAG truths can be treated as quirks too

"Don't keep checking it [documentation] out fully with those who are attacking the Alf," tells Jumjoy. "Therefore I tell you to use discrimination," tells Sir Alf.

Confusion set in: "Now it is hard to sleep and to meditate," informs Grandma. And Dixon Craig goes further: "I personally have no fear of the Backwater. In the past, I went there many times, and in fact, I often found comfort there! . . . I would wallow in the mud of despair and self-pity with my Backwater buddies for a few hours, then invaribly things would happen: First I would get bored. Self pity and despair just arent that entertaining . . . I would say I have benefitted from my visits with the Backwater. [Abr.] — HUM: If it works, it works.

Grandma feels like this, "Some on this board have offered some solutions, [and] others are just angry and bashing the Backwater and its moderator."

"The internet . . . you can't believe everything you read," says Lucknow, thinking we can believe that. "It is up to you to do you own research," tells Balaam. — HUM: One problem is that not everyone has the training that is needed for success. The Gold Scales seeks to remedy that, even considerably, by its particular table-designs marked by a "Get Tao".

7. You may feel Sir Alf-guided, but it was to your hurt, you find years later

Grinda: "Since you are doubtful about QUAG, follow what is written in the QUAG lessons and see if they work for you . . . do not believe anything till you know from your own experience. — HUM: Sir Alf and followers should have stood by that sane approach in all details, and things could have turned less cultish.

Gist

1. Severe errors in the Christianity-infiltrating demaguguery-theology of Sir Alf cause long-time troubles to many.
2. Life is full of destructive parts and persons too, and "magical cults".
3. The point not to ignore: Find out how they work before you commit yourself in a grand way, and you can be saved from "lifetimes of distress," even.

Conclusion of the Casual Study

In the cult of SRF there is a need to learn to think and say "maybe". There is a wealth of evidence that the guru's guidelines are not without fault and his wisdom is not flawless, for example, contrary to what the SRF holds, cultwise [Link].

As a help, the counsel by Buddha is excellent: [Link]

Further: learn a handy set of reservations on-site: [Link]

Thirdly, the good thing is to ask for proper evidence, learn to gauge various levels of evidence, and learn to keep undocumented or unsound assertions at bay (in suspense, warded off) first and foremost. It helps against becoming a dogmatising goody that a cult may can make good use of too. There is much to learn.