• Le chat Let Out: Overview
• Groups of Lay Admirers on the Internet ☥☥

Le chat Let Out: Overview

Chat is French for cat. To let the cat out of the bag is to disclose a secret. In English, chat means informal conversation, gossip, chatter and much else.

Maybe one giant panda (Sanskrit: panda) did not communicate as much as he is credited with. His sayings are to a large extent interpreted by panda admirers [More along such a line]. Different admirers understood him differently. One of them says the giant panda told her: "People understand me differently. Don't count on all they say I said." (cf. Dietz 1998). When groups of admirers of one and the same giant panda are at variance with one another, wars or skirmishes may follow. It has happened all too often - as part of a history of violence and lots of tense people.

Therefore, there could be adequate reasons for using sound distance-making to reduce tensions when topics are many and difficult. On the social level, "run away from there could help." On the psychological level, when telling of a Pandamonium, whatever that may be, it can also help to create a look of distance one way or another. Psychological distance-making may look odd, but see if it works - first. Then proceed with evaluating ing. Distance-making is used in some cartoons, like Peanuts, in ancient fables and further. It could help overview and perhaps more adequate coping in the long run. Perhaps.

In the history of mankind, many animals have been worshipped, including boars. Animal worship, zoolatry, refers to such as glorification of animals. Animal cults are formed from it, and may be classified. Primitive man worshipped animals that had inimitable traits or became family animals of a sort, and sacred too. (WP, "Animal worship")

Now, the reclusive giant panda is a true bear. A Sanskrit adaption, Mahapanda means 'great (or huge) panda'. Admirers also capitalise the word to show some respect.

Below are glimpses into a disguised devotee board, called Mahapanda-Loma-League Admirer Board. Contributions are sorted into groups to make more sense of them, hopefully. But don't count on it. A meaning-making process may allow for adjustments and doubts like that. Consider this an initial sorting, at any rate.

First overview: Four contribution groups

1. Personal peer-devotee counselling - some judicious and pertinent in a Mahapanda setting, and some more tendentious, even uncalled for.
2. Certain loyalty issues.
3. Denigrating critics in public and treating more critical discussion forums as bad and murky places.
4. Striving for good clues. Allowing thinking, maybe feeble and awkward, but still . . .

At least initially, such findings exemplify several of the main functions a Mahapanda-loyal bunch and discussion board may have. Other functions might appear later, and still later.

Group 1 - Lay Counseling

The following themes were sorted out:

• Probing for pieces of advice, not knowing what to do.
• Bolstering the faith.
• Being saddened by some "Satan" found.
• Sharing personal experiences to try to help another Mahapanda admirer.
• Needing to be able to relate to what is found - or better - cope with what comes up.
• "Damned if you do, damned if you don't".
• Professionals may seldom give free advice on a discussion board, and note that.
• Pandalism allows for it in the giant panda schemes.

Group 2 - Various Sorts of Loyalty

• In cults and sects we find abandoned, depraved, or demoralizing loyalty, and halfway damning thoughts like "Don't believe what good you read about Mahapanda on other sites . . . (Grinda, extracted)"
• What is to work for good should avoid negations (no-stuff).
• Parts of the looming Mahapandology doesn't hold water. Compare a mishmash page. It offers clear examples of "Pandanity".
• Against it there is a limiting mentality "Don't believe anyone else" or "Don't try to argue with fools. They will drag you down", and so on.

Group 3 - Denigrating

Denigation is smearing. It is one of the unfair means of discussions and debates [Link]. There are many, many others. Now where is the evidence that mocking another helps sanity or maturity?

1. People are at times mocked for no good enough reasons, and maybe self-preservation.

• Some doings fit "bad devotee mocking others" all over them.
• "We are good, nay, blessed - Pandas are what we have invested goodness in" is not fronted by accident, it it comes to the fore.

2. It is fine to balance along well throughout life.

• Good shelters, walls and hedges are nothing to despise, and frequently used to serve villas and homes.

3. Very poor admirers smear others to stay in tune with "leader sweetness." Some who are not well grounded, may hiss instead of going for being sachlich (fair of judgements, balanced, calm, matter-of-fact, sober, plain, level-headed, realistic, reasonable, well composed, sane, dependable, grounded).

• Black Arts a few centuries were not accidents, some admirers think.
• Listen to me," is a predominant attitude if lay admirers counsel one another. It is easy to ignore that each person's problem may be individual and may require an individually tailored attempt at solution, at least. Hence, online, indiscreet and failing counselling is hardly the best form of counselling around. Self-help might not work perfectly well either, due to material that may come up towards the surface. Better seek and find out there are many orientations among therapists.
• Some sects that seek to stand up as flawless, may not appreciate it if skeletons of the past are seen in the closets and other places. A quotation: "Some people expect everyone in Loma-League to be saints, but I guess if we were saints we wouldn't be here."
• "Why wallow in the mud?" one may finally conclude, after spending lots of time on discussion boards.
• Happiness may be forfeited. A path that the beginners think is a true path, may be a set-up.

Group 4 - Some amount of thinking is allowed

• "Oh my! There is fit documentation of bad things going on, at another, critical discussion forum!"
• Cult life can be pleasant even though the Mahapanda theology sucks - He may be said to have build a house with one half grounded in thin air (die those of unsound mind and not others. [See a lot aligned]
• The question of valid evidence of this and that - missing to a large part.
• You may feel Mahapanda-guided, but it was to your hurt, you wake up to realise years later. What then?
• What documentation is here? is the salient, formidable question to ask. That is a first step. The second is to get good evidence. The third to evaluate it well. There are steps and stages in this process of ascertaining various things.

~ೞ⬯ೞ~

Groups of Lay Admirers on the Internet

Lay counselling is not always bad, and may work well too. However, the Internet medium makes peer counselling somewhat artificial for most part. It is easy to get engulfed in it. What we find in many discussion forums - apart from some measure of self-seeking - may be grouped by "going meta". "Meta" is Greek for 'beyond' and 'after', and "going meta" signifies an attempt to find overriding concerns that underlie the material studied. Finding out of things means gaining some abstract concepts in this way - seeking to complete or add to our understanding of what is into the material studied. "Going meta" and the grouping of findings might help somewhat in dealing with matters, and maybe not.

The following sections seek to give glimpses from the four types of contributions that are sorted and specified a bit above.

Group 1. Lay Counselling

During a week or so, about 60 postings appeared on a string on the "The Mahapanda Devotee Board Three". Some participants indicated that "associate with roses" was a nice counsel. At times it works.

There were about a dozen contributors in that week's time. They gave vent to selective parts of the Mahapanda faith. However, they did not go for dictatorship on Mahapanda's word, and showed very meagre or no support of Mahapanda's ideas that Loma-League has scrapped so far - self-supporting communites, a University at the loma (a broad-topped hill), and many other things, like loma-lessons. (in this word, loma is Fijian for inside [of a thing], like realising who he or she is deep down, and what derives from It, for example.)

The Mahapanda tunes that the Loma-League leaders and admirer feel supported or nourished by, support that league. There are signs that others may be left the dark as to what really goes on behind the facades.

Group goings may not be mature. The complete Mahapanda teachings have been edited by Loma-League managers or editors for a long time already. They have censored some parts and edited away on other parts. A crucial question is whether Loma-League saying-selections are good enough to build a lifestyle on, or build conclusions on. (WP, "Post hoc analysis")

Group 2 - with Lots of Loyalty

Survey

There is dear panda loyalty amiss in counsels like "Don't believe what good you read about Mahapanda on other sites . . . (Grinda, extracted)."

Progress in higher yoga is rooted in truthfulness. That is part of the wisdom Dr Rudolf Steiner as well.

When you try to do one step forward to attain knowledge about the hidden truths, then do the same time three steps forward to perfect your character." [More Steiner]

"Don't wrestle with a pig. You'll just get dirty," says Joerl. Well, that depends. At any rate, some of those who got stuck in the Mahapanda universe, did move on into therapy. Cognitive psychotheraphy might do some good.

Who may detect fools if "It is a fool who cannot hide his wisdom"? (It is a proverb) ([More]

Shankara refers to Atmabodhi or Atmajnana, Self-Realization. A completely self-realised ones is thought to be a unique person. Such persons may rarer than beer drinkers. However, if the most fit of the best meditation methods are learnt and applied well, proficient meditation may improve one's odds of gaining a good life also.

Group 3: Denigrating Harshly ☼

Pseudonyms of Mahapanda admirers have been replaced with other pseudonyms in the following. A saying: "When a true witness writes on water, no marks remain. Good panda boards may be called waterboards according to that."

1. The people at the Water Waterboard and "those terrible sites" are smeared severely for the sake of preserving a feeling of being good guys, supposedly

"The people at [another waterboard] are against every Mahapanda . . ., (including every one that he hold dear), claims "Jumpoy."

Many Mahapanda admirers have got confused and despairing from "adverse tidings", says Olsong..

2. Looking in the mirror, the "outward-fake-it", is needed to balance the brain thoughts a bit

"There is no scientific explanation for the fact that while my body lay in coma, my mind - my conscious, inner self - was alive and well." [Eben Alexander quotation, inserted]

"What a wee little part of a person's life are his acts and his words! . . . All day long, the mill of his brain is grinding, and his thoughts . . . are his history. These are his life, and they are not written. . . . Biographies are but the clothes and buttons of the man." [A Mark Twain quotation inserted]

3. Septic tank folks are not all sweetness, nor is everything in Loma-League

One day "Looly" checked out a site, she tells, and the subject lines alone were enough for her. She felt that that website was in a dark dark realm. She honestly felt polluted just by reading the subjects without the details, and found she could not drive away the darkness by beating it (etc).

"Guimme" posts a supportive: "Keep in mind . . . the characteristics/leanings and generally mentally and spiritually unhealthy attitudes of persons who work on these sites . . . Devotees who are not well grounded will have doubts."

"Talk to your heart's content on THIS waterboard," counsels Hart.

"Blue Funboy": "One thing 30 years on this path will do for one: A deep realization that we are nobodies and we know nothing." [But write] (7)

"Dojadub" thinks many of the participants of "those waterboards" are extremely psychologically unstable. Especially the moderators.

Balaam tells that if we "read between the lines, many of the people on these waterboards went to temples or meditation groups, and then got into personal conflicts with other admirers." [Balaam, 01/23/2005]

A big problem with reading between the lines is that there is nothing written there.

So

The people are at getting and keeping a feeling and image of being OK, by the hood, by hook and crook or trying something else. Suitable folks are usually well enough grounded.

Group 4: Allowing Some Theology ☼

The theology of Mahapanda is to be recognised as mishmash, in part inconsistent, in part on loose foundations.

1. Errors in the Oioidom-infiltration of Mahapanda can make life less cosy

Some of the teachings may be studied without practicing them: See what the professor called Father Matheo, has concluded: "Heresy," he says. Why sullen, Catholic Loma-League members? [Link].

"[Another waterboard] is using documentation, and this is what bothers me," says Grandma, "I don't know how to get around the documentation." She goes on to say she is sorry if she is not an admiree who can take things on faith.

Not to be worried by sound documentation is part of the art of living for many. But sound yoga and yoga-allied teachings allow for fair inspections and other uses of reason.

We can see from several "good admirer" responses that Grandma got, that there are some who mean to gloat and crow, even if unfit, unseemly, uneducatedly. That can be quite a problem.

2. Cult life can be pleasant too

Balaam finds that "Some of the claims [on another waterboard] are demonstrably false (such as, you're instructed to hold your breath . . . dangerously depriving you of oxygen - or to visualize a cultic symbol)." Those pinpointings of Balaam are true. Authoritarian ways and mind-sets might hinder inner growth.

2. Life is full of destructive parts and persons too, and "magical cults"

Large parts of the Mahapandology mishmash sucks. But Grandma said she lost the ability to meditate. Then she called the Loma-League Center, and they said, "Meditate, pray to Mahapandaji, and don't return to those waterboards."

Comment: The price: they limit you inwardly and in other ways - for one's own good, seemingly. Free investigations may not be encouraged in a cultlike group. What cultish people mean is terrible, dark and dangerous, might be good to good ones.

"Joianda" further, "Some years ago at the [yearly Loma-League summer] convocation, there were some Loma-League detractors holding placards and demonstrating. . . . [A previous president] . . . is reported to have said "What would Mahapandaiji do in this situation? He would leave them alone". A panda has its ways. Compare: accusations and hard treatment in 1928.

3. The point not to ignore: Find out how they work before you commit yourself in a grand way

Balaam writes he has read the various allegations and have been left underwhelmed by the pettiness of from "Sir to "Sair", after Mahapanda died.

I the late 1950s, Loma-League put an extra 'a' into "Sir," - to make it "Sair" -, as if Sir was not long and good enough for them, and as if the founder of Loma-League did not know how to spell 'Sir' right. Compare something else that Jon Parsons discusses:

In the summer of 1958, after Sister Daya's trip to India, SRF suddenly changed the spelling of Yogananda's title from "Paramhansa" to "Paramahansa." . . .

The change was unnecessary and raised uncomfortable questions. If Yogananda could not get his own name right, how could he be trusted on less verifiable matters such as achieving union with God? If it was a minor thing, why bother at all? . . . Maybe SRF figured . . . it was their job to clean up after him. (Parsons 2012:72). [Jon Parsons quoted]

"Don't keep checking it [documentation] out fully with those who are attacking the Mahapanda," tells Jumpoy. If you value facts to pandolatry, the don't check-attitude is bad.✪ 

Be on your guard: Confusion could set in: "Now it is hard to sleep and to meditate," tells Grandma, "Some on this waterboard have offered some solutions, others are just angry and bashing the [other waterboard] and its moderator."

You may feel Mahapanda-guided, but was it to your hurt, you find years later? Grinda: "Since you are doubtful about Loma-League, follow what is written in the Loma-League lessons [LLL, or chatter] and see if they work for you . . . do not believe anything till you know from your own experience."

So

Some grave errors in life may be caused by cultish bluffology, plans of destructive agents, and for this reason alone it is grand not to commit oneself much to anyone else, to avoid regulated abuse ( - many cults are for that, it seems).

A Confusion Study

In the Analects, Confucius is credited with:

He who does not base his actions upon slanders that try to seep into one's mind, or accusations that accumulate like dirt on one's skin, may be called 'perceptive.' Indeed, such a person could even be called 'far-sighted.'" (Slingerland 2003:128) [Cf. Confucian Analects 12:6, tr. James Legge]

In Loma-League there might be a need to think and say "maybe" more often, deeply and well. If a Loma-League admirer manages to say a wise "maybe" to that, it could be a good sign if that 'maybe' comes from the heart. Yet, a setting that feeds many doubts may be a source of miseries to come. If doubts have slowly made their way on and up to conscious awareness, it is presumably not good enough to suppress them violently. There are better ways to deal with them. What are they? In addition to ways listed above and on another page, some try dream interpretation - for example as endorsed by C. G. Jung. Above it, professional help might be available, such as cognitive therapy.

Massive doubts may suit scientic minds - they are at the bottom of the general research method, where alternative hypotheses are made use of. (Kerlinger and Lee (2000)). Training is needed to make research fruitful, and lots of feedback, possibly.

Kua Tou Chan uses the doubt-sensation to get into higher mind levels during meditation - yes, neat "doubting" without much concrete involved, is used as a means to meditate. (Chang 1970:75-79).

Best of all, meditate, and go for other benefits that will not dwarf you. Cult membership may eventually make sheep, swine or cattle of members. In Homer's Odyssey, the crew of Odyssey was turned into swine through goddess magic. Odyssey: "Circe, how can you expect me to be friendly with you when you have just been turning all my men into pigs?" Things could have turned far less cultish if admirers just believed better - maybe less; study these guru words and find out if they are to be taken for anything:

Don't take my word for anything. . . . There will be as many interpretations of my lectures as there are listeners. - Paramahansa Yogananda, in Dietz 1998, "Master's Teachings"

A guru was sent to the West to spread kriya yoga teachings. He delivered, but lectured along too, and many words became faith-burdens to many - Early admirers did not like the swelling of lessons and books. But the words are part of what his league attracts many beginners with in the first place. After a long time in the United States, the one who made and later regretted the church he had formed, also said something like, "Use the techniques, but don't take my word for anything."

So far, so good? Is it wise or unwise to talk and lecture for decades, and then round it off like that? It would depend on the listeners and their development, or maturation. If the faith he spoke up helped listeners at the time live better, it could be a good thing there and then. And then again, after some years like that, Mahapanda felt he could not lecture so much in public any longer. Divine Mother tied his tongue, so to speak.

What the guru meant to say and what admirers make out of it, may not be so easy to decide, for it depends on interpretation, he also says (ibid.) However, more general guidelines had better be carefully planned, or confusion among admirers might be in store - confused guys may become neurotic too.

✑ Counselling tips and books
✑ Neurotics Quotations

Afterword

One is to follow the evidence wisely and well to where it leads; not somewhere else.